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Toggle shoutbox Shoutbox

+John  : (06 September 2010 - 09:44 PM) I am not on Pandora. Haven't you heard about her box? I like playlist.com
Aaron  : (06 September 2010 - 09:03 PM) John, I created an awesome pandora station. If you're on pandora I'll share it with you.
+John  : (06 September 2010 - 09:00 PM) I'm working on Part 4: Be the center of everyone's universe. Aaron, I'm working on a screenplay for a scary movie called "The Silence of the Harmonicas" staring Jodie Foster and Anthony Hopkins.
+zzcoop  : (06 September 2010 - 07:44 PM) Why, thank you! I recently purchased John's instructional scene-blocking DVD series. I just finished up part 3: "Don't Just SEE the Scene, BE the Scene."
Aaron  : (06 September 2010 - 07:32 PM) @John - Listening to "Lightning" Hopkins (BLUES harmonica) :7upspot:
+Bill 007  : (06 September 2010 - 07:17 PM) I think some guys just have the knack.
+Scrapinator  : (06 September 2010 - 07:16 PM) have you been getting private lessons from John?
Rhonda  : (06 September 2010 - 07:15 PM) It's as if you have had some tutelage from the Pro!
+Scrapinator  : (06 September 2010 - 07:13 PM) You are really quite good at scene blocking
+Allie  : (06 September 2010 - 07:09 PM) :lol:
+Bill 007  : (06 September 2010 - 07:09 PM) Got some good ones in I see!
+zzcoop  : (06 September 2010 - 07:05 PM) Probably won't get to this weekend's pics until tomorrow, but here are some teasers: Day 1 Day 2 Day 3
+zzcoop  : (06 September 2010 - 06:50 PM) :whistle:
Rhonda  : (06 September 2010 - 06:49 PM) Faceplant, please.
Aaron  : (06 September 2010 - 06:42 PM) ....now get on those pics!
+Allie  : (06 September 2010 - 06:38 PM) Thanks, Coop, you're the bestest.
+zzcoop  : (06 September 2010 - 06:38 PM) But yes, there will be pictures. Not as many as I would've liked though. (More to come on that.)
+zzcoop  : (06 September 2010 - 06:37 PM) PICTURES?!! Geez, you people are bossy.
+Allie  : (06 September 2010 - 06:35 PM) Wonderful. Glad you had a good time. Pictures, right??
+zzcoop  : (06 September 2010 - 06:33 PM) It was short and sweet, but mostest fulfilling.
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  • TV Index

    #1 User is offline   Veik 

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    Post icon  Posted 01 September 2004 - 08:58 PM

    The Difficulty Index is a rating of the approximate difficulty for hikes in RMNP. The higher the number, the more difficult the hike. A hike with a rating of 10 will be roughly twice as difficult as a hike with a rating of 5 for example. The rating is for the entire hike, from the trailhead to the featured destination and back to the original trailhead, or to a second trailhead if a one way hike.

    How difficult a hike is depends on many factors; distance, altitude, altitude gain, terrain, weather, hikers age and physical conditioning etc. These ratings are only a rough guide to relative difficulty with ideal conditions. Each hiker needs to try one of these hikes to get an idea of what rating is easy or moderate or difficult for them.

    13.0 Black Lake
    17.6 Bluebird Lake
    14.3 Chasm Lake
    3.7 The Crater
    9.2 Deer Mountain
    3.2 Dream Lake
    6.1 Emerald Lake
    10.6 Estes Cone
    14.6 Flattop Mountain
    6.4 Gem Lake
    16.6 Hallett Peak
    21.8 Mt Lady Washington
    5.8 Lily Mountain
    7.7 The Loch
    26.5 Longs Peak
    6.9 Mills Lake
    1.5 Nymph Lake
    14.0 Odessa Loop (Fern Lake to Bear Lake TH)
    12.7 Odessa Loop (Bear Lake to Fern Lake TH)
    7.5 Ouzel Falls
    13.5 Ouzel Lake
    13.3 Sky Pond
    16.2 Solitude Lake
    18.5 Thunder Lake
    11.5 Timberline Falls
    14 Twin Sisters
    4.9 Ute Trail (Alpine Visitors Center to Milner Pass)
    5.9 Ute Trail (Milner Pass to Alpine Visitors Center)

    The Difficulty Index formulas are:

    (One way hike) Difficulty Index = (C * 0.0015) + (D * 0.0005) + M
    (Two way hike) Difficulty Index = ((C + D) * 0.001 + M) * 2

    Where:
    C = Climbing elevation in feet (one way)
    D = Descending elevation in feet (one way)
    M = Distance in miles (one way)

    This is a variation on a formula that I found in the Rocky Mountain National Park Dayhiker's Guide. The original formula only considered elevation gain as the difference between the trailhead elevation and the destination elevation. I tried to improve on that because we all know that trails go both up and down on their way "up".

    If you would like something added to the list, post your request here.

    Tom

    This post has been edited by tlveik: 03 June 2005 - 08:13 PM

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    #2 User is offline   Aaron 

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    Posted 01 September 2004 - 09:01 PM

    If I didn't say it before...

    The TV Index is cool! B) A very useful item to use for planning hikes.

    Thanks for sharing this Tom! five.gif

    --Aaron jockey.gif
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    #3 User is offline   ProfHall 

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    Posted 02 September 2004 - 07:53 AM

    Way, way cool! Thanks for putting this on the boards...

    I have a request or two for getting some ideas for next summer...

    Ouzel Falls (and on to Ouzel Lake, but give the numbers separately)
    Flattop without going on to Hallet
    Odessa Loop starting from the Bear Lake side (!!)
    Mills Lake (without going on any further)
    Old Ute Trail, starting at visitors' center going downhill to Milner pass
    The Crater
    Adams' Falls up the east inlet into the meadows for views of "Baldy"


    From another thread I got the idea (maybe from lovesthemtns?) to get the kids to help plan the hikes for our next trip. I'm going to order one of the cd-rom paks from RMNA so they can start "seeing" the hikes and deciding where they want to go...and having the ultra-cool TV index will be part of our planning, now, too! :D
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    #4 User is offline   workrelease 

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    Posted 02 September 2004 - 08:23 AM

    TV...very informative and useful stuff!

    If it's not too much trouble, could you show:
    The Loch
    Thatchtop
    Lady Washington
    Chiefs Head
    Deer Mtn

    ... and all other potential destinations in the park :D

    Really though, thanks a lot!!

    -work
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    #5 User is offline   lovethemtns 

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    Posted 02 September 2004 - 08:50 AM

    QUOTE
    get the kids to help plan the hikes for our next trip.


    My husband always says: "It's their vacation too." grouphug.gif

    I had wanted to stay in a cabin this year, but my son really loves the "hotel swimming pools" when on vacation. My husband said "It's their vacation too." So we ended up staying at a hotel. Which actually was okay, we spend little time in our hotel room while on vacation and I confess at the end of a day of hiking I didn't mind the jacuzzi they also had .
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    #6 User is offline   GLENNinPA 

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    Posted 02 September 2004 - 09:35 AM

    My wife always has to remind me of that. My youngest is 3 so our hikes are mostly limited to 5.0- 9.0 on the TV index. Next year should be a little different.
    Glenn
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    #7 User is offline   ProfHall 

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    Posted 02 September 2004 - 09:58 AM

    QUOTE
    my son really loves the "hotel swimming pools" when on vacation


    Yep, that's for sure. But, we usually have a "front end" night as well as a "back end" night at a hotel/motel near DIA for the next morning's flight home...so those pools work for us. Besides, the water in the pools up in EP is COLD!!!! :D Which is a big change for us, since by the first of August the neighborhood pool here is usually only slightly cooler than air temperature. And who really gets refreshed swimming in 85 degree (or warmer) water?!?! :P


    Oh, and back on topic: seems we've given tlviek quite the assignment! Do we have a "due date"??
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    #8 User is offline   lovethemtns 

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    Posted 02 September 2004 - 10:41 AM

    Get out your red checking pen Professor!!! (And your TI-83 calculator).
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    #9 User is offline   workrelease 

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    Posted 02 September 2004 - 12:08 PM

    TV,
    I really like your idea and was just brainstorming on it a bit...

    I'm curious if you have ever considered an 'altitude weighting factor' into your formula? The AWF could be used to factor in the added difficulty that comes with increased altitude. For example, a 5 mile hike in Morraine Park is not as physically challenging as say a 5 mile hike above treeline.
    I'm not sure where to start but there are probably tables which show the typical volume of O2 at various altitudes. I'll look.
    A decrease in O2 could be represented by an increase in the AWF.
    Something like:
    TV-Index = (C + D) * 0.001 + (M * AWF)

    Anyway, I'm just fooling around with your very good notion. I'm already using 'The TV Index' to help plan some hikes. Thanks!

    cya,
    work
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    #10 User is offline   workrelease 

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    Posted 02 September 2004 - 12:59 PM

    Well, it sounded okay in theory but it would be difficult in practice. I just did a little research and here's what I found out...

    Indeed, at any given altitude, we all experience the same absolute O2 volume/pressure, but its effects are a relative thing based on some reference altitude. The reference altitude is based on where you live and spend most of your time.
    So for me, living near sea level, I would experience about 58% of my "normal" O2 on top of Longs. But for someone who lives in say, Denver, they would be getting about 70% or their normal O2. Therefore, the 'straining' effects on the Denver-ites aerobic efficiency would be less than us poor flatlanders.

    Finally, none of this takes acclimation into consideration. Slowly but surely, even the flatlanders can acclimatize.

    Sorry if this was all boring.

    So...nevermind blink.gif

    -work
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    #11 User is offline   Aaron 

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    Posted 02 September 2004 - 01:17 PM

    Not boring at all to me. Very interesting! five.gif

    --Aaron jockey.gif
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    #12 User is offline   lovethemtns 

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    Posted 02 September 2004 - 01:54 PM

    Not boring at all. I find it very interesting how the human body adapts to its environment. So for a real challenge, somehow compute in the formula some value that represents what altitude you live at. What the heck, then factor in another value that represents how many days you have been at a higher altitude and your body has had time to adjust. Then . . . add in another value that represents how many EP Brewery beers you had the night before. blink.gif

    If you guys can read a binary clock - then there has got to be a way to do this. I'll check back later. whistling.gif

    Anne
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    #13 User is offline   Veik 

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    Posted 02 September 2004 - 06:57 PM

    QUOTE (lovethemtns @ Sep 2 2004, 02:54 PM)
    add in another value that represents how many EP Brewery beers you had the night before. blink.gif

    I hadn't even considered that one since I usually don't drink while I'm there. I did visit the Estes Park Brewery the last time I was there though.

    I never put much effort into adding an elevation factor because I have no idea what it would be. Heck, it might even be non-linear. And like it was mentioned above, it would be different for different people and for different times.

    I've noted all the suggestions for additions and I'll get those added. Except maybe some of those that are off trail like Chief's Head. We would first have to define a route.

    Tom
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    #14 User is offline   Veik 

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    Posted 02 September 2004 - 08:13 PM

    Added Ouzel Falls, Ouzel Lake, Flattop Mountain, Odessa Loop, Mills Lake and Mt Lady Washington. Will add some more later.

    Tom
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    #15 User is offline   workrelease 

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    Posted 03 September 2004 - 06:35 AM

    TV,
    Thanks so much for doing this. It really is very helpful.

    -work
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