19 replies to this topic

[Aaron]

Park superintendents have kinda sorta been given an "okay" to ban plastic water bottles in their parks. To do that they would first have to do extensive studies regarding impact, etc.

What are your thoughts? (read this for more thorough info than my overview - http://bit.ly/saMCq8)

--Aaron

[DrCloud]

Aaron, on 15 December 2011 - 12:34 AM, said:

Park superintendents have kinda sorta been given an "okay" to ban plastic water bottles in their parks. To do that they would first have to do extensive studies regarding impact, etc.

What are your thoughts? (read this for more thorough info than my overview - http://bit.ly/saMCq8)

This must have to do with disposable ones (buy 'em, drink 'em, toss 'em) right? All of our hiking bottles, purchased at quite some cost at mountain stores, are plastic, after all. And I expect that the issue has to do with the "toss 'em" part, mostly.

It's not surprising that park supers are being required to do an analysis of the effects of a ban -- that sort of approach, for better or worse (and mostly it's for better) is just the Federal Way of Life. Policy changes just aren't made on the fly. I expect that Vaughn Baker could get a summer intern or two to do most of the work.

One issue at Rocky, as well as the other southwestern parks, would be safety, possibly a bit of a red herring introduced by bottled-water vendors but one with some reality as well. Those of us who are really prepared for high-elevation, dry-climate hiking take our own. But we've all seen plenty of casual visitors who aren't prepared (shoes are a giveaway), and the convenience of bottled water makes it possible for them to take easy steps to avoid dehydration.

I see more in the way of paper trash (gum wrappers, etc) than plastic, at least in Rocky. It will be interesting to see what Vaughn and staff do about this. HPH

[jflo]

Also, in the mean time, a bit harder of a push for "Pack it in, Pack it out" and "Leave No Trace" would help too. Putting a bit more $ into making these slogans more visible would help, IMO. There will always be those visitors that just don't care...

[DeeCeeM]

After reading all the materials available through Aaron's link, what is being considered is a ban on the sale of water in disposable plastic bottles within individual National Parks. The materials not only mention the issue of hydration, but also, among other things, the possibility of visitors drinking from ground water and the fact that you are eliminating the sale of the most healthy bottled drink and mainly leaving sugary drinks as the alternative. I'm glad to see that this at least admits that in order to solve one problem you may be creating others.

I didn't see anything that said the DBW* Patrol will be searching vehicles at the gates to make sure nobody sneaks any bottled water into the park. You just can't buy it once you get there.




*Disposable Bottled Water

[epdreamer]

If you rid yourself of the disposable plastic bottles what is the alternative for the sale of containerized liquid products? Aluminum cans or revisiting glass? Will either of these be less of a problem in waste streams if they become the only option? If there is to be a program for reduction or elimination of disposable plastic bottles, it cannot and should not be limited to water only. The plastic in drink bottles whether water, pop or juice are usually #1 no matter the drink. The penny pincher in me has often found the purchase of bottled water puzzling due to its cost per unit vs. the cost of tap water (let's see - $1 vs. free - what's most economical?) so don't think I am against reusable containers and filling stations. Put them in and make free water more accessible to everyone regardless of what is done on a plastic bottle ban. (If you build it, they will come.) In case you haven't noticed, the mountain fed stream water in the RMNP/Estes Park area is some of the best tasting water anywhere in the country (in my opinion). It is highly likely that making free water more available through the increased availability of filling stations, etc. will lead to a reduction in the purchase of pre-bottled beverages. I doubt that outlawing the plastic will in any way increase the pre-planning done by humans to assure that they have appropriate volumes of liquid or containers prior to heading into the park, so place the effort in areas that may result in the action you want to see.

[DeeCeeM]

I got to thinking about this, and I really don't see how this would effect RMNP as much as it would other parks, with Estes Park sitting right on the doorstep. It would seem logical to me that sites controlled by the NPS in RMNP would sell far less bottled water than someplace like the Grand Canyon or Yellowstone, where a large number of the visitors are lodging inside the park itself and doing most of their beverage purchasing there, as opposed to staying in town with a grocery store and several convenience stores handy. Come to think of it, I can't remember ever buying bottled water inside RMNP. (To be honest, I usually get a bottle of water to keep in the car at that gas station at the airport, then just keep refilling it throughout the trip. When hiking, I use a bladder in my backpack.)

I think it's good that they are making this a park by park decision. As with anything of this nature, it's complicated. You have to make sure the solution doesn't create three more problems you didn't foresee. What works well one place may be a disaster in another.

[DrCloud]

^^ Yep. I too think the park-by-park approach is a good one.

In RMNP, at least, that good tasting stream water is full of giardia cysts just waiting for you to drink them so that they can come to life and make your existence miserable. Those of us with experience in these mountains know this and either carry water or appropriate filtering equipment. But probably 99% of the visitors here don't have a clue. Moreover, I have to say that I just haven't been seeing much in the way of plastic bottle discards on the trails in Rocky. Other stuff, yeah -- there are some used toilet paper middens that are truly disgusting. But maybe this is a non-problem here. HPH

[John]

More and more of my friends said they had gone to the bladder system, but when I tried it the yellow color and warmth of the liquid grossed me out to the point that I went back to bottles.

[Lynette]

John, on 16 December 2011 - 06:56 PM, said:

More and more of my friends said they had gone to the bladder system, but when I tried it the yellow color and warmth of the liquid grossed me out to the point that I went back to bottles.

John, John, John..... .. (I knew someone was bound to say it.)

[DrCloud]

John, on 16 December 2011 - 06:56 PM, said:

More and more of my friends said they had gone to the bladder system, but when I tried it the yellow color and warmth of the liquid grossed me out to the point that I went back to bottles.

You're welcome to suck on whatever you want to. But perhaps you should consider more carefully what you choose to tell others about. HPH

[Aaron]

John, on 16 December 2011 - 06:56 PM, said:

More and more of my friends said they had gone to the bladder system, but when I tried it the yellow color and warmth of the liquid grossed me out to the point that I went back to bottles.

Wrong bladder, John.

--Aaron

[Igloo Ed]

DrCloud, on 16 December 2011 - 06:54 PM, said:

Moreover, I have to say that I just haven't been seeing much in the way of plastic bottle discards on the trails in Rocky.

Indeed, I think RMNP is one of the cleanest places one can go. With ALL the visitors it sees and it's very seldom I see trash of any kind. I have found a couple bottles over the many years is all. I wouldn't doubt they are more worried about parks with more water/rivers where people might tend to have simulated duck races.
What's funny is the Park used to give out free bottled water at the Ranger's shack.

[DrCloud]

Igloo Ed, on 16 December 2011 - 09:13 PM, said:

Indeed, I think RMNP is one of the cleanest places one can go. With ALL the visitors it sees and it's very seldom I see trash of any kind. I have found a couple bottles over the many years is all. I wouldn't doubt they are more worried about parks with more water/rivers where people might tend to have simulated duck races.
What's funny is the Park used to give out free bottled water at the Ranger's shack.

Y'know, that's right. Even with those free water bottles, it's not much of a problem, even on the Bear Lake Trail (which we try to do at least once a season).

If Vaughn Baker decides to do something, he'll have to provide for a public comment window (I think), and it might be well to provide our observations and opinions. HPH

[jflo]

I love filtering water from the streams... I'd much rather do that than buy bottled water any day.

DrCloud, on 16 December 2011 - 09:54 PM, said:

Y'know, that's right. Even with those free water bottles, it's not much of a problem, even on the Bear Lake Trail (which we try to do at least once a season).

Agreed. I think I've picked up more lost clothing (hats and such) than any discarded bottles or wrappers...

[foxfire]

Really, I have found the park to be very free of trash.

Fox