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An Incident Yesterday


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#1 misssilly

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 10:05 PM

Hey all,

Some of you may have read my Twitter comments, or my blog comments. I'm going to open this topic of first aide, trail safety, trail etiquette, behavior, and incident reporting. I'm hoping that we all will read this, discuss these topics frankly, and help spread the word about how to deal with problems on trails.

First of all, I'm ok. I was more prepared than I guess I thought I was. Here's what happened. I went hiking yesterday morning with Igloo Ed and JDGreen. We had (in my opinion) a great backcountry hike to the Loch on Sunday morning. We didn't go on a regular trail; we mostly followed game trails through the woods. We got to see some places that most people don't see. (I'm posting my pics elsewhere. Not appropriate here.) The Loch was relatively calm; I bet we got there before the majority of the crowds. Beautiful!

Well, Ed and Jim wanted to go back through the woods and do a bit more around the West Glacial Knob. I wanted to go down the trail, see Alberta Falls, etc. So we parted ways, promising to see each other at the picnic in the afternoon. I've been on the Glacier Gorge trail system quite a few times, as many of us have. It was good weather, nice flowers and everything. But I walked around a bend in the trail, somewhere maybe 1/2-3/4 mile (I think) up the trail from Alberta Fall. There was a young boy (maybe 8-9 years old) throwing rocks downhill into the distant creek. I'm not sure if I startled him (how could I? lots of people on the trail) but he threw a handful of rocks at me. His parents just made some excuse about how much energy he had, and quickly ushered him up the trail away from me.

By that time, my forehead was bleeding and my sunglasses were scratched. Thankfully, I had my glasses on, or my eyes most likely would have been hurt. Thanks to a woman nearby who was a 'mirror' for me, I was able to clean up my face quickly and get a band-aid on my forehead. I think the whole incident took less than 15 minutes. I walked out on my own, no problem. I walked part of the way out with a young-ish guy who had lost part of his right leg in a climbing accident and was using a prosthetic. He told me a couple stories of his injuries in the mountains, and gave me some perspective. hugs.gif

I had no problem walking out, or driving back to the Smith's house to clean myself up and relax. By the time I got to the picnic yesterday afternoon, I was basically just mad at this kid and his parents. I had big knot and some bad scratches on my forehead. Today, my forehead actually looks much better, although it does hurt a bit - just the skin and bruises. No headache, thankfully!

This afternoon, I talked to my boss at work - a veteran of the NPS of maybe 15-20 years. He told me how to report the incident, including the fact that this kid's parents didn't stop to help me or offer me their name and insurance information. Even a day later, I should report this, he said. The family is most likely not around, but the rangers are supposed to keep track of every incident where someone got hurt. With the visitation numbers that Rocky gets, many incidents probably go un-reported, but perhaps this information helps the park plan where the limited roving staff visit.

Granted, the NPS does not have NEARLY enough staff, but if we don't tell them, they won't know specifically that things are happening.

So. First. Let's go over what I had with me that helped the incident go a bit easier. Note, I am NOT a nurse, but this was my experience yesterday:

FIRST AID KIT: I had toilet paper to wipe myself up with. Always take tissues, TP or a clean rag with you! I also had triple-antibiotic ointment and sanitizing hand gel with me to help clean and prep the scratches. It also helped to wash my hands, which were dusty, before completely cleaning my scratches. I think it's important that you have both the sanitizing gel and anti-biotic ointment. I used them at different times. :)

I also had band-aids in a couple of different sizes (although I only needed one medium-sized bandage).

For me, I have chronic dry eyes, as diagnosed by my eye doctor. This has caused me problems in the past. My sunglasses were sacrificed in the incident, keeping rocks and dust out of my eyes. I also had plenty of eye drops to flush my eyes out. This was really helpful. Especially if you have contacts (which I don't), consider taking a small bottle of drops with you!

I had plenty of food and water - the water really helped to wash myself up as well. I can't tell you how many people I counted on the way back out that didn't have water bottles, or a Camelback pack (whatever brand), or anything of the sort. I know we've talked about this endlessly around here, but always take plenty of water with you! Even after cleaning myself up, I had plenty of water and food to settle my stomach and ensure that I wasn't dehydrated.

I had all of the 10 things that are suggested you always have in your pack while hiking - even though weather/rain, time of day, etc. wasn't an issue. Perhaps it would be good for us to review this list. Just listen to Aaron's second podcast - responsibility in the park. Kyle reviews this information - things we should all remember. John's comments on that podcast are helpful too.

Next, let's go over something that I did wrong. I didn't report the incident immediately upon returning to the frontcountry. When you see something like this happen, get the names of the people involved. If they get away too quickly, write down as accurate a description as you can, and report it to the next NPS-uniformed person you see - even if they are one of the (typically older) volunteers who are often stationed at trailheads. They can get in touch with rangers and park staff who can then get up the trails and check things out. Sounds silly, but the park really does need to know as much as possible about these kinds of incidents. My boss today suggested that, by not reporting, the incident most likely would happen again. Bill (my boss) said he understood my desire just to get home and clean up, but that I should have taken an extra 5 minutes for a report.

Third, from what I know of all of you Forumers, I know that you all watch your kids and their behavior on the trails. Believe me, I know that. And I'm NOT pointing any fingers. But when you all are in the backcountry, watch the behavior of those around you, especially the kids. Even I have skipped rocks on a lake in Rocky! But if there is any chance of causing harm to anyone, stop your kids from throwing rocks. Bill pointed out to me today that any Ranger worth his job would have given those parents a nice little chat about behavior and watching their kid(s). Picking up rocks and throwing them in creeks/rivers/lakes, no matter how fun, is actually not allowed. And it's the parents' or guardians' responsibility to ensure proper behavior in their kids. I guess we can use discretion, but we need to teach our kids how to behave in the backcountry - in situations, perhaps, that they don't deal with every day at home.

Finally, we all need to remember trail etiquette. How do we treat others on the trails? Do we say HI and offer help or do we walk away quickly, not wanting to get involved (for any reason). There were plenty of people - before and after my incident - that didn't even say hello on the trail. I'm not complaining, but I'm just stating a fact. I know we've talked the etiquette thing to death as well, but perhaps we can revisit this topic and put together a list of what we consider to be good trail etiquette. I'll post a page on the guide site with all of this trail etiquette, if you all think this is something we should post. (Aaron, what do you think?!)

Thanks guys!

Jen caribou.gif

#2 John

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 10:09 PM

Well said, Jen. I learned from what you wrote. Thanks!

#3 Guest_lbattson_*

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 10:16 PM

That little idget..you kept your cool..I would not have I would have followed them down the trail berating them the entire distance. Then I would have followed them to their car and got a liscense plate number. Then I would have called the park office and told them with their plate number what had happened and charged the brats parents with assault. No I probably would not have done all those things but I would have yelled loud enought they would have heard me all over the mountain then wondering where a nice hungry cougar was to take care of business. Parents have to control; their children in public no excuses....................rfr....( I am so angry)

And secondly what kind of jerks are going to RMNP that do not say hello on the trail..it was not always that way...there is no way Im going out again in the touron season....((((((still really mad)))))).....rfr

#4 Grannyheart

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 10:19 PM

Awww, Jen. I felt so bad when I saw the result you suffered because of that boy's behavior. And, the parents.....well, don't EVEN get me started.

I'm really glad you posted this. Everyone should see it. Besides the etiquette, the info about what to carry with you is very important. I say go ahead and post this info anywhere you can. People really need to be informed. Your experience yesterday confirms that.

I'm so glad your injuries weren't any worse than they were (which was bad enough!)....but they really COULD have been. hugs.gif

#5 Guest_lbattson_*

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 10:36 PM

If I would have been with you I probably would have knocked dad out (((((((((still mad))))))) (note to self do not hike with rfr)....rfr..truly starting to slightly cool down...maybe

#6 misssilly

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 10:56 PM

Hey Larry, I appreciate your sentiments. hugs.gif

But for everyone else: let's have a good chat about dealing with incidents and trail etiquette. shakehands.gif

Jen caribou.gif

#7 Weasel

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 11:09 PM

Wow. That's quite the story. I'm guessing the shock of the unexpected led to the quick getaway by the family. mad.gif

You make good points. About the only quibble I have regarding trail etiquette is your general location - on a heavily travelled section like around Alberta Falls I think it's unrealistic to say Hi to everyone or expect a greeting from everyone you pass. I know I have a tendency to put my head down and just try to get through the crowds as quickly as I can if I'm ever in that situation (using the fire trail does biggrin.gif ). Further out is a different story and not greeting someone on a more remote trail is a little odd, IMO. Ignoring someone who looks injured anywhere is unacceptable.

Definitely would agree about reporting the incident, especially given they didn't take any responsibility. Sounds like they were headed up so there's a decent chance they would've been spotted exiting the trail by a ranger or volunteer later on.

#8 mtnmanjc

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 11:56 PM

Hey Jen,

Thanks for sharing!!! Man, I can't believe some people!!! I wonder how many others were pummeled by rocks on the trail that day?? It's always tough dealing with situations like that, so it's good to know the proper way to handle it. Especially when parents don't respond to their child hurting someone.

I'm like you, I try to say "Hello" to everyone on the trail and even try to engage people in a conversation of where their going and giving them a few tips on things to see in a certain area. It's amazing to me how many people don't respond to "Hello". But I think I've figured out that some people are just not used to others greeting them as they pass. I've even had people give me weird looks when I say "Hello". Ok, maybe they were foreign and had no idea what I was saying!

I think rule #1 of trail etiquette has got to be if someone is hurt or in trouble that you stop and help in anyway that you can!

#2 - Be courteous to others on the trail.




#9 Melanie

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 06:08 AM

Well said, Jen. I feel so bad that you were hurt by flying rocks, from a child, no less. His parents were rude not to have stopped to apologize and offer help. Actually, they should have had the child apologize for his actions. I always say hello to those passing on the trail, or places in the park. I have met some really nice folks and love to hear stories and adventures in the park. I learned a lot reading your post, and it is a great topic for everyone.

Hope your feeling better soon. hugs.gif

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#10 Tracy

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 07:40 AM

Jen,

Hope that your forehead is getting better.

I agree with Melanie that the parents were totally irresponsible in the situation one for themselves not stopping to help and not having the child apologize and point out to him what he did wrong.

Given that...I too always try and speak to those that I pass on the trails. Sometimes when it is crowded it is very hard but I at least always try and smile and always, always try and move over if there are folks that are faster and want by. I have not had a situation where I was needed to help someone but of course would stop and help in anyway that I could.

Jen, thanks for the reminder about first aid that is one place that I do not take care of business when hiking!! We only do shorter hikes but still anything can happen and I will be sure to have that stuff in my pack from here on out.

I will be taking my daughter on her first RMNP trip the end of September and even though she will only be 20 months old, I will start teaching her common courtesy about being in the park. I know that this is really young but kids are very smart and I feel that the younger you start instilling what is right from wrong the better off they will be and will have a great base to keep learning from. RMNP will be a huge part of her life and I will not have her be disrespectful to anyone while she is there.

This is a great topic, Jen. Sorry that it had to start the way that it did with that terrible kid with the even worse parents.

Tracy

#11 junkie

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 08:37 AM

Thanks for posting the whole story jen. I am sorry if my teasing you about it (here or at the picnic) caused you any grief. I think you maintained yourself pretty well - I would strangled the little bugger. Hope you are healing up ok.

#12 B-Jay

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 08:51 AM

First of all, I'm glad you're all right ,Jen. I am saddened and angry that the parents just dismissed their son's behavior by saying he has so much energy. It would have been a great opportunity for them to explain that what he did was wrong and he should apologize for what he did. Juvenile detention facilities are often full of young people whose parents made excuses for them rather than try to instill good values and proper behavior. soapbox.gif

I'm glad you mentioned the importance of reporting incidents like that to a ranger. I think I would have been so flustered at the time that I would not have thought of it. By bringing this to my attention, I'm hoping I'll remember to make a report or encourage others to do so if there is an unfortunate incident on a trail.

When we're hiking, my husband is in charge of the first aid kit. In all our years of hiking, he only had to bring it out once. It was the time I tripped on a rock, root, or who knows what on the Bridal Veil Falls trail. I skinned my knee and it began bleeding. My hands were dirty from breaking my fall as I went down. I was pretty amazed at all the stuff he had in his kit as he ministered to my wounds--all kinds of bandages, athletic tape, gauze, antiseptic towelettes, an emergency thermal blanket, and a pair of disposable gloves. The kit doesn't take up a lot of room and it sure can come in handy if needed.

It's always nice to greet people as you pass them on a trail. I find people are more friendly early in the day and in the more remote areas. Like others have mentioned, sometimes it's impractical to say "hi" to everyone when there's a steady stream of hikers going past you. I remember coming back on the Fern Lake trail when we encountered a group of over 30 members of some club or organization who were all hiking together. We just moved to the side of the trail and smiled, nodded and made comments to some of them as they passed. I don't think I've ever seen such a big group hiking together on any of our trips.

Thanks for bringing up this topic, Jen. I know I learned some things from your experience.

B-Jay

#13 randyman

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 08:57 AM

Glad you're okay, heal FAST! Parents that do things like that really chap my hide!!
I really chokes me when they say things like, "That doesn't sound like my Billy" or, "I don't know whats gotten into him".
What needs to get into him is caring parents that are responsible.
They really dropped the ball. I'm glad you're doing better.

Randyman headwall.gif
I'm with rfr.....

#14 Jo

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 11:07 AM

Poor Jen! I'm glad you were OK, but not a pleasant incident. I'm sorry the parents didn't stay and see you were OK and make sure their child apologized. A good lesson for us all. Kids don't always behave, no matter how well you might educate them, but we have to take responsibility when they don't.

I didn't know you weren't allowed to throw rocks in the rivers/lakes at RMNP. We have let Luke do that (under strict supervision smile1.gif) but I guess we shouldn't from now on.



#15 Guest_lbattson_*

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 11:25 AM

QUOTE (randyman @ Jul 29 2008, 11:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Glad you're okay, heal FAST! Parents that do things like that really chap my hide!!
I really chokes me when they say things like, "That doesn't sound like my Billy" or, "I don't know whats gotten into him".
What needs to get into him is caring parents that are responsible.
They really dropped the ball. I'm glad you're doing better.

Randyman headwall.gif
I'm with rfr.....
thanks..............




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