23 replies to this topic

[Aaron]

I figure we should start gathering info on lightning so here goes...

(Feel free to contribute any relevant info!)

First of all, START EARLY! Plan your hikes so that you can get up and back down before the noon/afternoon storms roll in. Also get a weather forecast before heading out for your hike. (weather radios are good item to have) Studies show that in Colorado the first lightning strikes occur shortly after 11 a.m. in the high country. Know what a plan of action should be in case you get caught in a storm. There are two questions to remember for the "Plan of Action". 1) How far away is the safest location? 2) How long will it take to get there? When you're in the high country there really are no "safe locations". Seek ditches, trenches or the low ground and stay away from water. Get in the "lightning position". Picnic tables, tree, canopies, rain shelters, and caves are bad examples of places to be during a lightning storm.

The "lightning position" consists of squatting or crouching down as low as possible on the balls of your feet, with your feet touching or as close together as possible, while covering your ears to minimize any hearing damage. If you're in a group make sure to distance yourselves at least 15 feet away from each other to decrease the chances of electical current travelling through multiple persons.

Keep an eye on the sky. Every 10 to 20 minutes look up and check what's happening in the sky. If thunderclouds are forming then begin your "plan of action". Look for dark cloud bases and increasing wind.

If you're in a tent seek shelter in your car or any other safe shelter. Even though you may be surround by trees, which would reduce your chance for a direct strike, you are still at risk from ground current. If you have no safe place to go from your tent then get in the "lightning postition". If you lie down in your tent you are at high risk for ground current!

You should not resume activity until 30 minutes has passed from the last audible thunder.

Facts, myths, and references:

• To determine how far away the lightning is count the seconds after the flash until you hear the thunder. Then divide that by 5. So if 10 seconds passed from the flash until the sound of thunder then that means that the lightning is two miles away. 15 seconds= three miles, 20 seconds= four miles, and so on.
  
• Myth--Lightning never strikes twice
  
• Myth--Rubber tires or a foam pad will insulate me from lightning
  
• Myth--A cave is a safe place in a thunderstorm
  
• Fact--Lightning can strike 10 miles ahead of the thunderstorm rain
  
• Fact--You are in danger from lightning if you can hear thunder
  
• Tip--Stay twice as far away from a tree as it is tall

First Aid for lightning victims:

• Call 911 or other appropriate emergency number
  
• If the storm is still dangerous then wait to help victim. Don't create more casualties.
  
• Move victim away from high risk areas, i.e. tree, water, etc
  
• Treat the apparently dead first
  
• If not breathing, perform mouth to mouth
  
• If no pulse, begin CPR
  
• Check for burns and treat as normal burns would be treated

Info gathered from the following sources:
Thunderstorms and Camping Safety , Chuck Doswell, Colorado Lightning Resource Center, National Lightning Safety Institute

[updawg]

Lightning injures 7 Colo. hikers

7-18-2006
© 2006 The Associated Press

MARBLE, Colo. — Lightning struck a tree where seven mountain hikers were resting, seriously injuring a 15-year-old and sending all seven to a hospital, authorities said Tuesday.

The hikers, from two parties, had stopped near the tree Monday on 11,850-foot Marble Mountain when lightning hit it, the Gunnison County Sheriff's Department said in a statement.

Four people in the group were able to walk to Marble, about 4 miles away, and call 911.

The 15-year-old was in serious but stable condition Tuesday, the sheriff's department said. The six others were treated at a hospital and released.

The injured included two young children, ages 5 and 9, officials said. A dog that belonged to one of the hikers was killed.

[weatherbe]

Awesome information Aaron and right on the nose! Thanks for sharing!

Weather

[Andy]

This is a good topic Aaron. I was actually going to bring this up soon. My question is related to the protection an autombile offers. In your post you say, "If you're in a tent seek shelter in your car or any other safe shelter." However, you also say, "Myth--Rubber tires or a foam pad will insulate me from lightning".

So, does a car provide any protection at all? I was up on a ridge (not unlike Trail Ridge Road) at about 13,000' feet yesterday in my Jeep. There was thunder and lightning out, enough to make me scratch my plans to scrambling the last 400 vertical feet to the summit. As I was having lunch in the Jeep I kept wondering to myself if it really afforded any protection at all. Was I any safer than just standing out there on the ground? Would a hard top offer any more protection than my soft top?

[growski]

Google is your friend...

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/jul99...82849.Ph.r.html

"In summary, a car is not a perfectly safe place from lightning. The rubber
tires really do not have anything to do with the protection that you get
inside of a car. The lightning bolt has probably sparked across a mile of
air already by the time it reaches a car. If the car is hit by an
especially strong bolt, there will be significant, though probably not
fatal, electrical effects on the occupants inside the car. Still, a car is
a much better place to be than almost any other place that I can think of."

I don't know how smart or not smart the responder is, but it all sounds logical.

-ken

Edited by growski, 18 July 2006 - 03:23 PM.

[Aaron]

This is a good topic Aaron.  I was actually going to bring this up soon.  My question is related to the protection an autombile offers.  In your post you say, "If you're in a tent seek shelter in your car or any other safe shelter."  However, you also say, "Myth--Rubber tires or a foam pad will insulate me from lightning".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't realize that contradiction when I posted that. I do remember that I got most of that off of some government website. It's been so long I can't remember which site it was based off of (governement sites are public domain).

I do remember talking with my physics teacher in highschool. We talked about it and watched some kind of video that simulated lightning strikes on a car. Like growski's post stated, it's probably not perfect but better than being out in the open. From what I remember the strike would charge the car and it would want to stay along the outside of the car along the top/outside surface due to its like charge repelling itself. I suppose that there could be enough charge to cross through the vehicle and cause damage to someone inside. I'm no expert obviously, but that's pretty much what I remember talking about with my physics teacher.

--Aaron

[Weasel]

Would a hard top offer any more protection than my soft top?

I would think the hard top would be more protective. The soft top is just cloth, so I think if a lightning bolt would just go right through it. If you're lucky, it'll hit the roll bars which should disperse it somewhat.

[Rhonda]

I can speak from personal experience, lightning can strike a car and do considerable damage but not necessarily hurt a person. I was driving home from work one afternoon in 1991 in a severe summer thunderstorm. I saw a huge lightning bolt strike a large cement plant tower at least a mile away and at that same moment, the loudest boom I've ever heard happened right on top of me. Immediately my speedometer and radio went dead, and I think my windshield wipers, too, I can't remember. I drove on home and told my husband about it and by the time he went out and looked at my car, the right rear tire was completely flat. We were bewildered, but I knew it had to have been the lightning strike because it was simultaneous.

He changed the tire and I drove it over to the Buick dealer with my husband leading the way in his truck, and just as I was pulling into the dealership, I lost all power, the alternator went dead. It turned out after about $1,200 worth of work (and the insurance company paying for most of it under comprehensive due to it being lightning) that lightning had directly struck my radio antennae - you could see the black mark right on top of it, had traveled through my electrical system and had blown a hole in my right rear tire as it exited my car. I was just very lucky that nothing I was touching had been charged.

This is a true story. I've told some people about it and they said I was crazy, but the dealership vouched for it, I saw the damage myself, as did the insurance adjuster, who agreed and paid.

Since then I have read other accounts of lightning striking a vehicle, and if you happen to be leaning out the window on the frame or something like that, it could travel through you on its way to the ground. In my case, the main bolt hit the cement plant, probably a lightning rod on the top of the tower, and a stray bolt made its way to my car.

I told a friend at work that I must not be living right. He said, "No, you must BE living right for lightning to strike you and you lived to tell about it." I didn't think about it that way. And I had just paid off that car on the Friday before this occurred.

Rhonda

[Allie]

Wow, Rhonda, God was surely looking out for you. Glad it was the car, and not you. A girlfriend and I were walking to the car after an outside concert, and it was storming, and Rhonda looked at me and told me my hair was standing on end, and I looked at her, and her's was too. You never saw two girls run as fast as we did to the car. That was pretty scarey. Glad you were ok, Rhonda.

Allie

[Rhonda]

Wow, Rhonda,  God was surely looking out for you. Glad it was the car, and not you.  A girlfriend and I were walking to the car after an outside concert, and it was storming, and Rhonda looked at me and told me my hair was standing on end, and I looked at her, and her's was too.  You never saw two girls run as fast as we did to the car.  That was pretty scarey. Glad you were ok, Rhonda.

Allie

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, that IS scary! Glad you and the "other Rhonda" were safe!

I guess it's stories like this and my own experience that make me so fearful of lightning.

Rhonda

[mwilson]

Holy cow, both of your stories are VERY scary! Glad you're both OK.

Marsha

[retlod]

Lightning, just like any electrical charge, will follow the path of least resistance in order to get to ground. Even in the air, it will travel preferentially through more conductive air--that's why bolts are jagged.

If you are in a car, the electricity should behave the same way and travel through the car's metal framework until it can get no closer to ground. Then it will arc and take the short jump (blowing Sandy's tire, for example) to get to ground. The path through the frame, though longer, offers much, much, much less resistance than traveling through air to get to a body and they back through air to get to the frame again. Even if you happen to be touching the frame, the charge shouldn't travel through you--it should continue along the frame. If you've ever seen birds sitting on a power line, this is how they can survive. Electricity is too "lazy" to go through the bird and then back into the wire. That said, you'd probably suffer a thermal injury because of the heated metal. This super-heating is probably what popped the tire.

I can't claim this is the gospel truth, but theoretically, it makes sense that you'd be pretty safe inside a car. So safe that I'd say you shouldn't worry about it. If you have your doubts, check the nerd score!

[Rhonda]

I can't claim this is the gospel truth, but theoretically, it makes sense that you'd be pretty safe inside a car. So safe that I'd say you shouldn't worry about it. If you have your doubts, check the nerd score!

I believe you. It makes sense.

And it wasn't Sandy's tire, it was mine! (I didn't even know Sandy then.)

Rhonda

[BukElgle]

Great information and hopefully newbies to hiking in RMNP will see this and take it
seriously. When we started hiking in the mountains (many years ago) we were
always told "The mountains don't care" - it's worth remembering and will always
remain true.


Rick

[Lsmith]

I can speak from personal experience, lightning can strike a car and do considerable damage but not necessarily hurt a person.  I was driving home from work one afternoon in 1991 in a severe summer thunderstorm.  I saw a huge lightning bolt strike a large cement plant tower at least a mile away and at that same moment, the loudest boom I've ever heard happened right on top of me.  Immediately my speedometer and radio went dead, and I think my windshield wipers, too, I can't remember.  I drove on home and told my husband about it and by the time he went out and looked at my car, the right rear tire was completely flat.  We were bewildered, but I knew it had to have been the lightning strike because it was simultaneous. 

He changed the tire and I drove it over to the Buick dealer with my husband leading the way in his truck, and just as I was pulling into the dealership, I lost all power, the alternator went dead.  It turned out after about $1,200 worth of work (and the insurance company paying for most of it under comprehensive due to it being lightning) that lightning had directly struck my radio antennae - you could see the black mark right on top of it, had traveled through my electrical system and had blown a hole in my right rear tire as it exited my car.  I was just very lucky that nothing I was touching had been charged.

This is a true story.  I've told some people about it and they said I was crazy, but the dealership vouched for it, I saw the damage myself, as did the insurance adjuster, who agreed and paid. 

Since then I have read other accounts of lightning striking a vehicle, and if you happen to be leaning out the window on the frame or something like that, it could travel through you on its way to the ground.  In my case, the main bolt hit the cement plant, probably a lightning rod on the top of the tower, and a stray bolt made its way to my car.

I told a friend at work that I must not be living right.  He said, "No, you must BE living right for lightning to strike you and you lived to tell about it."  I didn't think about it that way.  And I had just paid off that car on the Friday before this occurred. 

Rhonda

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This happened to a friend of mine when I lived in KS. Her car was struck and she pulled over and got out and it caught fire. She walked away, but it was a life changing experience for her. Glad you were alright. Whew!
Lori