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podcast content regarding elk population


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#1 Aaron

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 10:37 PM

There is a good possibility that I'll be able to provide a podcast covering information about the plan in the works regarding the elk population/vegetation issue. I have some inquiries to make about whether I'll be able to turn some things into podcast material. Presuming I can, what are some serious, educated/informed questions you would like to submit to me to ask? I'm gonna have to be 'strict' and request that anyone interested please go back and read the old topics covering this issue within the forums (thanks to weasel for his post listing the topics covering this, click here!) Also, for those interested in proposing questions, click here to read up on the NPS/ROMO plan progress/status.

I'd like anyone interested to read those items so that I have less filtering out to do. We'll need questions that are within what their plan hasn't ruled out. Example, hunting and wolf reintroduction are both ruled out....so let's not get fired up with questions about hunting or wolves.

--Aaron music.gif

#2 harpyeagle44

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 12:31 AM

They should bring back the wolf. Oh that is ruled out. Darn.
laugh.gif

Kevin


#3 Aaron

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 08:02 AM

QUOTE (harpyeagle44 @ Dec 8 2007, 12:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They should bring back the wolf. Oh that is ruled out. Darn.
laugh.gif

Kevin

neener.gif

--Aaron laugh.gif

#4 Dianne

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 02:01 PM

Thank You for the information!

I don't want to sound cynical, but regardless of public input, I firmly believe the decision/plan has already been made.

The plan states that the elk population fluctuates and will be reviewed annually.
Maintaining a perfect number of elk appears to be a time intense and needless job.
As the population grows one year, it will, by environmental factors decrease another. Vegetation, likewise, pine beetles, for example.
***We, of course, are caregivers of the land, and it is our responsibility, as we infringe on it, to assist.
Yet, history has shown, through the extinction and displacement of animals, we can do more harm than good.

I have been lax on my research of the topic, and will do more homework. But, as I said, I am certain that a set
plan will be initiated. I seriously, will be praying for the animals.



#5 JDgreen

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 03:32 PM

QUOTE (harpyeagle44 @ Dec 8 2007, 01:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They should bring back the wolf. Oh that is ruled out. Darn.
laugh.gif

Kevin


Or we could fence out the elk sensitive areas with a series of tightly constructed cell phone towers neener.gif

#6 Weasel

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 04:26 PM

NPS gives 3 issues regarding hunting that make it unfavorable and led to the dismissal of hunting as an alternative. The 1st and 3rd points raised make reference to the negative impact of hunting on visitor safety, recreational opportunities and the overall visitor experience within RMNP.

So, my question(s) would be: what specific steps are the NPS planning on taking to minimize the negative impact of culling on those same issues? I see they're planning on closing some roads for a few hours in the early morning, but what else? Along that train of thought, here are more questions/thoughts I have:

- I have to assume that (for ease of disposal) most of the culling will be done fairly close to roads. To minimize the impact on visitors, are they considering time of year rather than just time of day to minimize impact on visitors? According to the NPS data (and common sense laugh.gif ) , November through April are the months with the lowest visitor totals by far. That (conveniently) is also the time females are pregnant, so it would make the most sense to cull some time in that range. However, that's also when elk are most likely to move out of the park to lower elevations, so exactly what is their plan? Are they focusing on females to reduce the number of future offspring, or will they select fairly equal numbers of male and female elk?

- Are they going to try to achieve some of the results of natural predators other than population reduction? I think I've read that studies in Yellowstone indicate that since wolves were introduced, elk have altered their behavior and are less likely to overbrowse vegetation in some areas, as they've learned that those areas are dangerous. So, in RMNP will they simply choose the easy targets out in the open, or will they actively seek out elk in the willows/aspens to try to drive them out of those areas or at least make them more wary and less likely to overbrowse those areas?

- Will they publicize the areas to be culled ahead of time and institute area closures? This would probably be safest, but would also give protestors the opportunity to organize and attempt to prevent culling from taking place in those areas on those days. If protestors show up, I could foresee some safety issues in terms of unknown numbers of them possibly running around, trying to move elk out of the area and putting themselves in danger by being in the line of fire. Maybe that's a bit far-fetched, but some people do take things to the extreme. How will they handle any protest activities?

- Also, assuming they publicize and institute temporary area closures, will do they anything more to ensure that people are not in that area at the time of culling? We all know that some people like to get up early and go hiking or take photos, and we all know some people ignore or don't notice area closure postings, so will NPS actively search the area for unwanted visitors, or just rely on signage and the skill of marksmen to make sure they only shoot elk and have zero stray bullets?

- If NPS chooses to not publicize these areas, what steps will they take to ensure visitor safety and a positive visitor experience?

#7 misssilly

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 07:16 PM

QUOTE (Weasel @ Dec 9 2007, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
- Are they going to try to achieve some of the results of natural predators other than population reduction? I think I've read that studies in Yellowstone indicate that since wolves were introduced, elk have altered their behavior and are less likely to overbrowse vegetation in some areas, as they've learned that those areas are dangerous. So, in RMNP will they simply choose the easy targets out in the open, or will they actively seek out elk in the willows/aspens to try to drive them out of those areas or at least make them more wary and less likely to overbrowse those areas?


Weasel, I really like this question. It poses an even more interesting management issue. Good thought! thumbup.gif

Jen caribou.gif

#8 Aaron

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 08:03 PM

Weasel, reading your good questions made me think of another....

You mentioned stray bullets/sharp shooters, etc......My guess is that the elk are so tame that it could be done with a tranquilizer and then lethal injection. I'll ask them what their exact plans are, i.e. sharp shooters with what max distance.....or tranquilizers/lethal injection.

--Aaron jockey.gif
(maybe this has been stated already somewhere....I need to go back and re-read their statements)

#9 Weasel

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 08:29 PM

Aaron, I would guess that lethal injection would be at odds with their goal to possibly donate the meat to somebody. The idea of using a tranquilizer hadn't crossed my mind - not sure if that would affect the meat to any great degree either, but it sure would eliminate the possibility of stray bullets.

#10 Dianne

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 02:38 PM

QUOTE (misssilly @ Dec 9 2007, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Weasel, I really like this question. It poses an even more interesting management issue. Good thought! thumbup.gif

Jen caribou.gif



The book "Elk: Behavior, Ecology, Conservation" by Bauer talks about this - elk behavior with predators.
I followed Aarons link and it does state why hunting has been dismissed but does not say why wolf introduction was ruled out.
Perhaps I missed it.




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